THE SCOTT THUNES/ED MANN COLLABORATION STORY
(and how it nearly never happened)

by
J21

A year ago, after my first album ‘Yellow Mind: Blue Mind’ (Voiceprint Music, VP510CD) was released, I decided to start planning the recording of my second CD. I already had a bunch of songs composed and the idea was to ask some of my favourite musicians to collaborate on the recording. Ed Mann and Scott Thunes were on my mind since the previous record. It was also a more special collaboration than the rest since they hadn’t played together since the last Zappa tour. (For a special account on the details surrounding the 1988-tour, please read the wonderful ‘Zappa The Hard Way’ book by Andrew Greenaway (Wymer UK, ISBN ISBN978-0-9557542-5-8)).

After reviewing my already composed songs, I saw that none of them were suitable for Scott and Ed to shine, so I started to think of other possibilities. At that exact moment I was listening a lot to Trey Gunn’s ‘Modulator’, so I thought that maybe I could arrange something similar. For those of you that have not listened to this record, I highly recommend it to you. Basically the idea behind this project was to compose music over a 51 minute drum solo by virtuoso drummer Marco Minnemann.

I asked Marco to prepare a similar solo for me, but shorter. Marco recorded a 20 minute solo and a six minute one for me to choose. The original idea was to use the 20 minute long one. I would send it to Scott so that he could compose and record bass over it, then to Ed to play over Marco and Scott, and then I would record guitar all over it.

For reference, I want to quote Trey’s words about the making of his ‘Modulator’ record: “This was the hardest recording I have ever taken on. The challenges of this process prove the old adage that ‘with great restrictions come great creative leaps’.”

I told Trey about my idea, and he warned me: “20 minutes is an eternity when you are dealing with Marco!!!”

After Trey’s warning, and considering that the length of the album was growing out of control, I decided to use the six minute solo (as you will see later, thank God!).

Following are email transcripts from conversations by Scott, Ed and me after I sent them the drum solo:

Scott (23rd June, after sending him the track):

“I’m not sure I like it, and I’m pretty sure I don’t have time to work on it. And I’m not really capable of speaking of what Trey Gunn did with it, but I do think I’d like to try what he did, which was break it up into smaller pieces which may or may not be what you were thinking about, but is doable on my end if the time-constraints aren’t too terrible.”

Scott (2nd of July):

“Boy, what a doozie! It’s big, and bad, and fun as hell to listen to. I can’t do anything with it until I do a time-chart for it and it’s taking a longer time than I was expecting, not that I was expecting it go to quickly, just...it’s taking a long time and I get bored easily. That said, I certainly wish you’d done stuff to it first. I don’t think I’m going to enjoy composing to it, seeing as how I don’t really have all that much time now that I’m rehearsing for this tribute band thingie I’ve got going, but a promise is a promise.”

Scott (3rd of July):

“I’m sending you my rhythm chart of the Mennimnannnnannenen thingie. The lack of numbers should be interpreted as being eighth notes. I put in 16 where appropriate. I’m making corrections now...”

Scott (later that same day):

“I’ve done with the corrections. There are weirdnesses upon weirdnesses, as you could imagine, but if it’s any help to you, the corrected version might actually be useful...somehow...”

Scott (4th of July):

“Here it is, mp3 and aiff. Whew. Let me know what you think... or don’t! I’m done! Good luck, my friend...”

J21 (later that day):

“Thank you for helping me so much, and for doing such an amazing job, Scott. You are amazing!”

Scott (5th of July):

“Well, you are welcome, and thank you for the opportunity to do something so far outside my comfort-range. I guess I CAN do stuff like this. Cheers, and very good luck to you in finding stuff that will ‘go over’ this piece.”

Ed (12th July, after sending him the track):

“OK, J21. I will see what I can do with it”

Ed (later that day):

“It sounds composed - including Marco’s part - because everything is so specific. I can create a part, but that too will be composed. Are you OK with a three or four-way composition?”

Ed (13th July):

“Let me mess with this for a minute - it is a real puzzle... more soon.”

Ed (14th July):

“So, it is interesting. I kind of like it...it is very difficult if I approach it literally...it could be interesting if I developed it another way, which is what I am searching out. Can you please send to me a mix with the drums louder than the bass (in fact a mono/mono L/R thing would be nice)?”

Ed (15th July):

“Scott did a great job, and this is almost an impossible task. That he has taken however the very strict approach that he took means my task is that much more difficult: I have to feel good about whatever work bears my name.”

Ed (21st July):

“Keeping you updated: lots of work my friend, this one. I am finally happy with some of the results. I am out of town from today until Monday, but will get something to you next week.”

Ed (4th August):

“It is really hard work. The piece has ended up to be something that is 100% from the head and 0% from the heart. I do have some things that are OK. But I hate it all: it does not sound like fun when you listen to it. I have probably 40 hours invested in this thing so far. I will not let anything out the door that I do not feel good about - and this music has no feeling. So I’ll work a little bit, and then have to leave it and then come back to it. Weird experiment - I think it is good to experiment. I do not think that I can make music out of this construction, however.”

Ed (5th August):

“The bottom line truth of this is that it is not music. That is a big problem. Marco’s solo is fine and Scott did a great job of creating something over the top. But it sounds like a construction, and that is where the music stopped. Now, whatever I do has to fit within both of those constrained parts, meaning it is one step again farther away from being music. Maybe you can do something over the top of it? I can create something that works, but it is not music and I am not going to have my name on something that is not music. Weird, man.”

Ed (later that day):

“No guarantees, J21; I am not encouraged, and I am absolutely out of time.”

J21 (later that same day):

“OK, Ed, I understand you completely. Let’s forget about the damned song!”

Ed (even later that day):

“Let me think on it for a while, so I can get an idea of what to do.”

Ed (8th August):

“I have something for you, J21. It is OK, I think. This is me using a MalletKat to play an Emu Proteus 2000, with custom patch. There may be a few places where you want to time-adjust a phrase or two, I leave it to you. Similarly, you may not want to use all of it. There are open spaces, which are your sections. Likewise with FX - I have played around with Dub/delay, distortion, Ring Mod, chorus, verb, modulations, etc. sections - it is a nice way to orchestrate it. If you want me to do it, then let me know. OK, J21!”

J21 (8th August):

“Thank you very much, Ed. You've done an amazing job. I really like it a lot. You are so great!!”

J21 (21st of August):

“Now that I have recorded my parts, I must say that I really enjoyed the process of doing it. It really is hard to record in such a way, but also there are some magical things in this song that couldn’t be achieved in any other way. I’m really proud of the thing.”

‘The Jupiter Trilogy’, as the song is called, will be part of my upcoming album ‘Beyond The Holographic Veil’, which will also include performances by Don Preston, Robert Martin, Reeves Gabrels (David Bowie) and Mike Garson (David Bowie), and will be produced by Geoff Tyson (T-Ride, Snake River Conspiracy, Satriani’s top student).

The Law of 21 J21 on MySpace Yellow Mind: Blue Mind Scott Thunes Ed Mann